Discord Forum Board

DriftSythe2 months ago

I think it’s a skill to keep mind that the timer is going while scouting

6

LenömOP2 months ago

yeah thats true but if the opponent picks instantly you have very little time to look at the seed

LenömOP2 months ago

and for slower computers the world loads while the draft timer is going

DriftSythe2 months ago

yea I intentionally look at the seed while my draft is going and then choose at the last second when that happens

DriftSythe2 months ago

imo that’s more of an optimization issue rather than an issue with the draft system

DriftSythe2 months ago

I feel like allowing more optimization mods or changing the way spawn chunks render would be a better solution for that specific problem

3

DriftSythe2 months ago

and it is a viable strategy to instapick so both players get less time to scout

LenömOP2 months ago

i guess youre right

5772 months ago

imo this is really really bad if we're not at least pregenning the 32x32 chunks around spawn

5772 months ago(edited)

you can just fuck over your opponent if they disconnect/reconnect or if their pc is way slower than yours

5772 months ago

i also think it kinda sucks that your opponent can stall the draft for no reason if they feel like it

Ramzs2 months ago

your first point is valid; pregenning/optimization is kinda due, but opponent's network connectivity/PC specs is none of your concern. also, what do you mean stall the draft for no reason? you're given a window of time to pick, so utilizing it optimally is up to you.

5772 months ago

opponent's network connectivity/PC specs is none of your concern

thats the problem

Ramzs2 months ago(edited)

that's not you fucking over your opp, that's your opp fucking over themselves

5772 months ago

if i can exaggerate the hardware bias in my favor by picking goals instantly then its a problem

5772 months ago

This is a pointless distinction

5772 months ago

You design the game from a player-agnostic perspective regardless

Ramzs2 months ago

yes, and the solution is optimization, not manipulating draft picking timing

Ramzs2 months ago

spampick/stalling is a valid strat and you should always utilize it optimally

5772 months ago

yea this doesnt really have anything to do with what i said

5772 months ago

ur kinda just spamming thought terminating cliches

Ramzs2 months ago

also, what do you mean about "for no reason if they feel like it"? stalling draft is always a valid strat

5772 months ago

can you explain exactly what "valid" means here

5772 months ago

as in, not disallowed by the rules or the game's mechanics?

Ramzs2 months ago

there's enough reason that justifies it

5772 months ago

what makes it justified, other than being possible in the game and not being disallowed

Ramzs2 months ago

which one

Ramzs2 months ago

stalling/spampick?

5772 months ago

yes

DriftSythe2 months ago

the player with worse hardware can just stall their drafts if they need to

DriftSythe2 months ago

and like once again that’s an issue with optimization not the draft

Ramzs2 months ago

well, you may choose to spam if you are more confident in making better spontaneous decision than your opp, or if there's a super obscure structure/biome you see during draft

DriftSythe2 months ago

^

Ramzs2 months ago

to make your opp planning/seeing it less probable

Ramzs2 months ago

you can just flip the reason for stall

DriftSythe2 months ago

it’s a good strategy

DriftSythe2 months ago

I doubt most people who instapick goals are doing it because their opponent has bad hardware

5772 months ago

idk i think its annoying to have a metagame element with huge potential for snowball effects on the game that also has an oversized impact against players with bad hardware

5772 months ago

the intent is completely irrelevant

DriftSythe2 months ago

what potential is there for snowball effects

DriftSythe2 months ago

idk what you’re saying

5772 months ago

if u see a structure that ur opp doesnt u can get like 6 free goals

DriftSythe2 months ago

it has a small impact against players with bad hardware

Ramzs2 months ago

if your spec is THAT bad, the LEAST amount of time you get is half the drafting time

5772 months ago

depending on the board and the structure obviously

5772 months ago

and eyeball rng is always going to exist but why should we also be ok with adding a layer of metagame to that

DriftSythe2 months ago

yea spotting structures is a skill

DriftSythe2 months ago

people really just be adding rng to everything

DriftSythe2 months ago

like what

DriftSythe2 months ago

what the hell is eyeball rng

1

5772 months ago

my bad

5772 months ago

Ohhh so we're just arguing in bad faith

Ramzs2 months ago

what?

DriftSythe2 months ago

5772 months ago

what are you confused about

5772 months ago

rather than asking what i meant by "eyeball rng" which i think is pretty straightforward u send 3 messages acting like im insane

Ramzs2 months ago

how do you even conclude that, given we answered all your questions

Ramzs2 months ago

scythe literally asked what the hell is eyeball rng

DriftSythe2 months ago

I know what it “means” but I sent those messages because like it’s not a real thing

5772 months ago

it obviously is real, if you look at the same 1080p image of the game looking for a structure with like 20 pixels exposed youre probably not going to see it every single time

Ramzs2 months ago

its a skill to spot something during draft

DriftSythe2 months ago

I’ve never heard anyone say that looking around is rng

5772 months ago

obviously if youre in a snowy looking for an exposed shipwreck then you might

Ramzs2 months ago

which means, if you're able to see it, you should get rewarded for it?

DriftSythe2 months ago

it’s also a skill to decide where you’re looking for and how long

5772 months ago

if you, the same person, only see it some subset of the time, then its random

5772 months ago(edited)

i dont think randomness is inherently bad but it is in fact random

DriftSythe2 months ago

like if I spend 10 minutes looking for the igloo and if my opponent is just looking at the draft and I find it then I deserve to get the igloo goals because I spent more time searching

DriftSythe2 months ago

blaming something like that on rng is just cope

5772 months ago

.

Ramzs2 months ago

no?

5772 months ago

How no

Ramzs2 months ago

youre saying as if randomness is the main decisive factor

5772 months ago

Is that what i said

5772 months ago

Can i get a yes/no on that one

5772 months ago

Before you say anything else

DriftSythe2 months ago

idk what you’re trying to say or what your point is your messages aren’t very straightforward

Uniquepotatoes2 months ago

i do think faster drafts could be nice at some point it takes so long i fall asleep

5772 months ago

it would help if u try to interpret my messages as if the person writing them has a consistent and reasonable opinion rather than defaulting to "this is cope"

Ramzs2 months ago

while randomness exist in where to sequentially look, there is enough time to look everywhere during drafting, making the first part of my sentence negligible

5772 months ago

i dont think thats true

DriftSythe2 months ago

when someone says that spotting a structure is rng you just have to assume they are coping

5772 months ago

ive seen plenty of seeds where the intended structure is insanely difficult (but theoretically possible) to see

DriftSythe2 months ago

you have full control over where you look and how long you look

5772 months ago

if you can actually give an argument against my reasoning then go ahead and send it

DriftSythe2 months ago

what is your reasoning

5772 months ago

yea im not replying to you anymore

5772 months ago

lol

DriftSythe2 months ago

good for you

James2 months ago

No like what is the reasoning even

5772 months ago

https://discord.com/channels/1493030345048719483/1509394286423048202/1514993226593865910

1

DriftSythe2 months ago

it just has to be ragebait

5772 months ago

Anyway that wasnt even remotely the important part of my message lol

Ramzs2 months ago

that's a filtering issue

1

5772 months ago

does that matter

James2 months ago

What are we saying

5772 months ago

what if its not an intended structure

5772 months ago

and the filter doesnt do anything with it

DriftSythe2 months ago

also if both players don’t see it then there’s not an issue anyways

5772 months ago

you are doing like insane mental gymnastics to support the idea that you should just have full knowledge of the entire 360 degree view from birds eye and the ground in every single game

DriftSythe2 months ago

and if one player does because they were paying more attention while looking then they deserve to get the structure

Ramzs2 months ago

okay, guys, let us zoom out for a second.

Ramzs2 months ago

577, what's your actual problem with the current system and how do you think the Dev's supposed to fix it?

5772 months ago

can we use the scroll wheel

Ramzs2 months ago

while i definitely can, i'd much prefer to try to read and understand it once again in a clear, unseparated sentence from you

Ramzs2 months ago

that is, of course, only if you want to provide that

5772 months ago

Its in my first message in the thread

Ramzs2 months ago

thank you, that opinion is valid, pregenning solves a lot of issue for player with low specs. the alternative is, to allow more optimization mode (and/or vulkan in later version)

5772 months ago

Also id rather not shit up the actual suggestion chat with ur weird nitpicks of my argument rn

Ramzs2 months ago

what i dont understand is, do you have problem with the drafting system, especially stalling and/or spampicking, and what's your ideal system for that?

Ramzs2 months ago

because i think that's what we are all arguing, if im not wrong

James2 months ago

So insta picking is bad because if the opp has a bad pc/hardware or connection they get cooked by the fact that it gives less time for the chuck to load and scout the seed while the player insta picking ( who has a better computer hardware ) loads the seed faster giving them an edge to scout and look at the seed more?

James2 months ago

Is this the thing or did I strawman it

5772 months ago

not instapicking conceptually but as it exists in the game currently

5772 months ago

This is pretty much my entire problem with players having impact on draft time

5772 months ago

Beyond the fact that it doesnt really make inherent sense for players to have an impact on the draft time

Threadfinn2 months ago

With this logic everything is random rng, not skill. Nobody is perfectly consistent. Crafting is rng because you can mess up sometimes. Killing mobs is rng because you might miss a crit. Building a nether portal is rng because you can misplace.

Just because the same person isn't always perfect doesn't make it rng, it just means their skill level isn't absolutely perfect.

1

5772 months ago

everything has random factors yes, sometimes those factors are negligible and i argue that in this case they are not

Ramzs2 months ago

you're also against player stalling draft, and why is that? how did that snowbally affect the game?

5772 months ago

And again i never argued that its bad for randomness to be in the game

5772 months ago(edited)

Im not really sure why anyone takes issue with this, sometimes you just miss stuff because its impossible for the human brain to see 100% of the screen at 100% processing power every single time

DriftSythe2 months ago

doesn’t mean it’s rng

5772 months ago

what is it if not random

5772 months ago

give me a word for it

Threadfinn2 months ago(edited)

If you miss any structure except a buried igloo on a snowy mountain, it's not rng. And you can still pieray the igloo.

Ramzs2 months ago

um can you answer this, please?

5772 months ago

i actually did that in my 3rd message in the thread

DriftSythe2 months ago

nothing is 100% consistent

Threadfinn2 months ago

Skill issue

DriftSythe2 months ago

pretty good word

5772 months ago

But its not a skill you can develop

Ramzs2 months ago

how did that snowbally affect the game :(.

DriftSythe2 months ago

it is?

5772 months ago

theres nothing you can do if you diverted processing power to the wrong spot in a scenario where you have no information with which to make that decision

Ramzs2 months ago

i at least understand the concern for spampicking, but how did stalling affect the game at all

DriftSythe2 months ago

looking around efficiently is a skill

1

Ramzs2 months ago

it is 100% skill you can develop

5772 months ago

ok

DriftSythe2 months ago

just like how looking at the board is skill

5772 months ago

lets imagine youre right

DriftSythe2 months ago

if you miss a goal on the board is that rng

5772 months ago

and you can see 100% of every angle around spawn with 100% accuracy at any level of contrast

5772 months ago

how does that impact my argument

Uniquepotatoes2 months ago

yes thats brain rng aga

DriftSythe2 months ago

ohhh of course

DriftSythe2 months ago

feinberg has a 95% winrate because he has better brain rng

Ramzs2 months ago

577 ignores me im legit sad

DriftSythe2 months ago

that’s definitely what’s happening

Threadfinn2 months ago

I'm not bad at the game I just have unlucky hand and brain rng

DriftSythe2 months ago

he’s able to find lines I didn’t because of the brain rng

5772 months ago

NOT arguing in bad faith btw

DriftSythe2 months ago

it all makes sense now

Ramzs2 months ago

guys lets not turn this into insulting

DriftSythe2 months ago

who is insulting anyone

5772 months ago

are you serious

5772 months ago

you dont see how your messages are disrespectful to me?

DriftSythe2 months ago

nope

5772 months ago

Lol

DriftSythe2 months ago

I can see how my messages had a negative connotation towards you

5772 months ago

okay

5772 months ago

so you do understand

DriftSythe2 months ago

but they weren’t insulting you

Ramzs2 months ago

im still getting ignored btw

DriftSythe2 months ago

I have no issue with you personally

5772 months ago

how is it not insulting to imply that what im arguing is the same as some completely senseless thing you made up

DriftSythe2 months ago

I simply have a differing opinion

Ramzs2 months ago

DriftSythe2 months ago

what

DriftSythe2 months ago

elaborate

5772 months ago

yea nvm im closing discord

5772 months ago

gg

DriftSythe2 months ago

I guess bro

DriftSythe2 months ago

like I just asked for clarification

James2 months ago

What would be a better solution to avoid that then?
Add a black screen and only start drafting or being able to scout the seed until both players have loaded all the chunks?

5772 months ago

pretty much what pregenning would be yea

James2 months ago

How would the pregenning work

5772 months ago

Idk thats up to the devs

5772 months ago

If it were to be implemented

James2 months ago

Eh I think adding more optimisation mods will fix this

galoomba2 months ago

maybe start genning as soon as the match is made

Pre pick drafts