Discord Forum Board

MSC2 months ago(edited)

how are you supposed to remember 50/100 unique crafts without sound feedback?

jamerrq2 months ago(edited)

maybe to add an option in settings to mute this

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ThreadfinnOP2 months ago

The same way you currently have to remember kill 100 mobs. Just vibes of about how many you think you've done, then check the board if you aren't sure.

MSC2 months ago

how is that better as opposed to the current system that's in place?

ThreadfinnOP2 months ago

My issue isn't that the sound is annoying, it's that it takes away from the skill of the goal. Have a mute option isn't great because you're just choosing to get a disadvantage.

Elag4222 months ago

suggested 7 minutes after a suggestion to add more counters aga

ThreadfinnOP2 months ago

Currently crafting is the hardest goal to forget it's on the board, because you get constant reminders.

ThreadfinnOP2 months ago

lol that's what made me think of it

EliteMaster2 months ago

if u find its annoying, surely you can turn it off somewhere in the menu no?

EliteMaster2 months ago

isnt it under note blocks

ThreadfinnOP2 months ago

Spyglass is different because if you're looking at a bunch of mobs with a spyglass it's safe to assume that you knew about the goal.

MSC2 months ago

i think that people will still go for crafting regardless of the sound feedback

blanket addict2 months ago

I don't think keeping track of crafts is a skill worth highlighting

blanket addict2 months ago

not forgetting the goal maybe there's a case for but idk I think this would make the goal worse

sugaarush2 months ago

https://klipy.com/gifs/he-made-a-statement-statement-dog

He Made A Statement Statement Dog

MSC2 months ago

^

blanket addict2 months ago

I'm on the side of more counters

6

ThreadfinnOP2 months ago

I feel like that's the point of the goal though no? You still have to remember what items you've crafted as it is now. With the counter removal you would still be able to check by looking at the board, like you do with foods or kills.

sam2 months ago

the ding sound is my only source of joy

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sam2 months ago

how dare you come for my shining light

sugaarush2 months ago

we should get more types of ding sounds actually

ThreadfinnOP2 months ago

Need a guaranteed spyglass goal every game. or fishing rod goal

sugaarush2 months ago

for more sources of joy

blanket addict2 months ago

well it is already this would punish you for not keeping track of the number and not noticing double crafts

blanket addict2 months ago

I don't think that's a good addition

EliteMaster2 months ago

id say ding shud only apply to crafts, other stuff shud hv similar counter but no sound. Because then theres gonna be too many sounds imo and gonna be a skill of recognizing which sound is what goal.

1

blanket addict2 months ago(edited)

I also think that there's enough punishment for forgetting goals when it comes to routing, having things happen that remind you they exist is fine imo, if more goals have this crafts would kinda be the edge case where you get reminded like immediately

ThreadfinnOP2 months ago

You'd still always be able to check in two seconds by opening board

sugaarush2 months ago

oh yea fair

MSC2 months ago

like, 100 crafts is obscene. its one of those end game goals
how are you supposed to remember what you've crafted without crafting duplicates of the same object?

ThreadfinnOP2 months ago

it already doesn't tell you this? Or is there a list if you open board and can read 100 items?

EliteMaster2 months ago

mind u it doesnt rly tell u what u hv crafted so its a skill in itself to even remember what u hv crafted.

MSC2 months ago

^

ThreadfinnOP2 months ago

All the ding does is tell you to keep crafting new items.

MSC2 months ago(edited)

do you think that exiting the crafting menu, opening the board, hovering over the goal just to check is better than the ding sound?

ThreadfinnOP2 months ago

There's no other goals that remind you to do them.

sugaarush2 months ago

imo the point of draftout is to play minecraft the best and have the best game knowledge. not to be the best at keeping track of goals in an unfriendly way

EliteMaster2 months ago

crafts also is a very mechanical intensive thing compared ot other counters/goals

sugaarush2 months ago

i'm all for making challenging goals. but not for making the draftout mod more challenging to navigate lol

MSC2 months ago(edited)

you would have to do this multiple times during 100 crafts i'd imagine

ThreadfinnOP2 months ago

Thinking of and remembering 100 new crafts is the difficult part. Remembering the goal exists is easy, made easier by the fact it tells you to do itself

ThreadfinnOP2 months ago

To me it's just that crafting is something you will do even if you aren't trying for the goal. Killing a lot of mobs or sprinting 1km are similar. Other goals generally require more intent, you won't make progress on them accidentally.

Imagine there was a chat message that popped up reminding you wood tools is on the board if it still isn't done after 5 minutes. That's what the ding is like for crafting, it's impossible to ignore this goal by accident. No other goal is like this, you might complete some of the obtain X by accident, but you don't get reminded to do it.

You can always open the board to keep track or how many you have, but you should generally be able to have a decent idea of where you're at anyways. You already have to remember what items you've already crafted if you want new ones. If you check and you're at 90/100 and then don't get the goal after crafting 10 things because 1 was a repeat, I don't see how the ding actually helps you know what you should craft next.

MSC2 months ago

i don't think the wood tools scenario you say is comparable to the ding sound

EliteMaster2 months ago

Its not like wood tools, its differentiating new crafts vs old crafts

EliteMaster2 months ago

hence why the goal is called unique crafts, not just crafts

MSC2 months ago(edited)

also, people can just choose not to go for unique crafts for an infinite number of reasons

MSC2 months ago

even if they get reminded of it with the sound

ThreadfinnOP2 months ago

Ok actually while I still disagree with it from a gameplay perspective, the sound is too good to get rid of

Arxyj2 months ago

the OP is correct.
main skill of draftout is remembering all 25 goals and not forgetting the one you should go for. The sound makes it impossible to forgot crafting goal, as you are reminded very often about it.

The same does not (ussually) go for the spyglass goal. Because if you are spying on a mob, you know about the goal. You dont do it "on accident", unlike crafting. (except maybe the rare case where you spy on ghast for spyglass advencement and forgot spy 20 mobs goal. But i dont see that happening). And you need the sound there - because the game doesnt give you any other feedback if it counted or not. *Maybe it can be argued that the sound should be there allways, not only for unique mobs, so it does not help with that).

If you are on 90/100 crafts, the sound does not really help you - because it only tells you AFTER you crafted the item. So its not like it can help you remember what not to craft.

If everyone really loves the sound i dont think its a big problem to keep it (but im strongly against putting more feedback like this in the game). But after reading tis, im genually impressed how some people can ignore the argument given and react to something completely different

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blanket addict2 months ago

I think that it's more accurate to say the main skill of draftout is to manage all the information you have to make the best tactical decisions, so it's not just remembering/forgetting goals it is being able to keep track of everything relevant at once

blanket addict2 months ago(edited)

how easy or hard this is already varies heavily across goals, so I think any individual goal being easier or harder to track is just completely value neutral gameplay wise

blanket addict2 months ago

and I think making the tracking progress part of long term progression goals more intuitive just feels way better, and this extends to anyone watching the game too

blanket addict2 months ago(edited)

progress goals being extra obtuse doesn't really add more skill I don't think, the game is so deep there's already enough things to sink your brain power into so it'd just be reallocated to more interesting/more efficient decision making

ThreadfinnOP2 months ago

https://discord.com/channels/1493030345048719483/1532579015523569834/1532654689198407852 I do agree with this, it does help viewers.

ThreadfinnOP2 months ago

I think having some amount of tracking is definitely important, for example being able to see which foods you've already eaten for 25 foods is great. I just don't think a counter telling you how many you have is really that helpful, since even if you haven't been closely keeping track you can at least guess your approximate progress just by vibes. Since it doesn't tell you which items you have/haven't done it isn't really giving you that info like the lists for uniques do.

blanket addict2 months ago

I feel like it really is honestly because like otherwise you'd have to check your progress semi regularly and you'd not really know how fast you're updating it

blanket addict2 months ago

I don't think it'd be that much harder but it would really not be smooth

blanket addict2 months ago(edited)

and I honestly really think making the game more comprehensible for viewers is something very worth doing, which this would be great for (and I think this being a general thing every progress based goal does would be awesome)

blanket addict2 months ago

I think it adds bad friction instead of good friction to not have stuff like this

blanket addict2 months ago

the more aware the player is of the board state the more good friction there is (rewarding quickly making good decisions that consider all of the many many variables happening at any given moment in a draftout game)

ThreadfinnOP2 months ago

I feel like being able to approximate how many items you're crafting is a good skill. I'm not really thinking about how much you have before you start focusing the goal because you can just check the board once when you start. But if you know you need 30 more items I feel like knowing how many you get from each wood type as an example should give you a very close amount.

blanket addict2 months ago

I think this skill is already rewarded plenty if you have full info

blanket addict2 months ago

if you have 16 crafts left and you know what you need to get all of them in quick succession (or you approximate that you probably already have 16 things you can craft on hand) that gets rewarded

isawabelle2 months ago

i think the sound is good for letting you get confirmation that what you crafted was a new item
its also just really satisfying

blanket addict2 months ago

being able to approximate the amount you have left well I don't think adds anything interesting because you already have to approximate how many you are able to do

blanket addict2 months ago(edited)

you need a good mental model of what's been crafted and what you can craft

ThreadfinnOP2 months ago

I agree, but especially at lower elo and even at 2300 elo people still make the mistake of not seeing goals or hallucinating goals that don't exist. I think it is still a skill issue if you aren't able to keep track, even if it is nearly impossible. There could be more reminders for all the goals so players are more aware of the board state, but I think that paying attention to the board state is an important skill.

blanket addict2 months ago

I don't think this is a problem to be fixed but I don't think it's a skill to be preserved either

blanket addict2 months ago

if draftout progresses to the point that top players can conceptualize all the goals on the board with total lucidity then the depth is only just getting started

blanket addict2 months ago

because from that info they then need to make all the best routing decisions and do so extremely quickly

blanket addict2 months ago(edited)

I think there being so much to track like that is why even top level players forget goals constantly, because you can forget a goal as in like "don't shear the dead bush that's right in front of you" but you can also forget a goal as in "you do not go 15 seconds out of your way for a red mushroom off of spawn because you don't remember the 4 mushrooms goal when it was actually the probabilistically optimal route"

isawabelle2 months ago

i really dont think getting a sound when you craft removes much skill from knowing what goals are on the board

isawabelle2 months ago

like craft items is already a very easy goal to remember compared to like, most other goals

pinkpuff2 months ago

I really enjoy the ding i find it very satisfying and dont think that part of the skill of remembering crafting matters that much imo but a toggle option would be nice for sure

ThreadfinnOP2 months ago

Several people have mentioned a toggle now, I'm curious what would be the point? I don't think there's anyone who finds the sound annoying so that can't be it. Turning it off only gives you a disadvantage so there's no gameplay reason you would want it off. I just can't think of why a toggle would be good or why anyone would ever choose to use it.

pinkpuff2 months ago

Lol i thought i saw a message in here saying exactly that they found it annoying but maybe i skimmed too hard.

ThreadfinnOP2 months ago

They were just saying that IF you find it annoying you can mute it under block sounds

Remove the ding and counter for Craft X Unique Items