Discord Forum Board

hsetOP2 months ago

By goal tooltip i mean ui box that is shown when goal is hovered in board viewing screen

beniibobs2 months ago

isn’t it just part of the skill of the goal to know if you have duplicated items?

hsetOP2 months ago

this is the 3rd time in a row i make a suggestion or ask a question and get "this is part of the skill" type answer and im gonna kill somebody at this point

hsetOP2 months ago

yes, it is part of the skill, so what?

isawabelle2 months ago

i mean ig u could argue the skill is not getting duplicate items in the first place
i'm not super against this idea but i also don't think it's good to make looking for dupe items in your inventory easier

jamerrq2 months ago

maybe is because you're missing the point of the mod?
is like asking for a minimap to locate structures in the game, or glowing effect to locate some mobs or biomes

3

beniibobs2 months ago

So what? So the whole point is that you want to play better than your opponent to win and gain elo. Removing elements of skill just to make it easier for people who can’t be bothered to improve defeats that point. It’s like the suggestions that the goal should tell you crafting recipes, or have a big arrow over a lava pool or something.

beniibobs2 months ago

i mean like, if you blew up a temple, you’re probably gonna have duplicate cut sandstone. being aware of that makes you improve in games

hsetOP2 months ago(edited)

no, the point is not to play better than your opponent, the point is to play minecraft better then your opponent and make decisions better than your opponent

beniibobs2 months ago

yeah so what I just said

8

isawabelle2 months ago

finding items in an inventory is a part of playing minecraft

DriftSythe2 months ago

making decisions better than your opponent is equivalent to playing better than your opponent as decision making is part of the game

hsetOP2 months ago

if you can be perfectly aware of every item in your inventory at all times you will still always be faster than checking the board screen, but you'll have an option to spend some time checking the board which will guarantee you can fix the inv it lets say 10s but will also terminate your theoretical opportunity to do it in 3s. more options means more decision-making

just as you can be faster for 15 unique foods by just recalling what was your route and reconstructing what happened to make a prediction about what you did eat and what you didnt which can be overlapped with whatever you're doing or you can just remember that, but instead you can spend time checking the list of foods which can get pretty long and waste you a good 10s

also, highlighting repeated items was just an example, instead it can show you a list of items that are repeated and the goal will still require you to locate these items in your inv, making the option of checking the board more time-consuming which balances it more with the option of just brute-forcing full inv

i didnt read the thread of lava pools pointer and other stuff that has been mentioned so i cant exactly tell what bad similarities you found with this suggestion but 1 thing i can say is that lava pointers remove decision-making, while this suggestion adds more of it

you can be stuck staring at your inv for 30s while your opponent just has other order of items in their inventory or whats more likely they have completely different items in their inventory. this is rng

if you think about it birdseye view was added to remove rng and give you more options to choose from since the beginning of the match, but there is still nothing that stops you from just sending a random direction and hitting everything you need, this makes it similar in a way to this suggestion

hsetOP2 months ago

unrelated to discussion but please learn the difference between equivalence and implication

hsetOP2 months ago

but now that i think about it being better at decision making doesnt make you better than your opponent in general and being better than your opponent does not imply being better at decision making than them so i dont even know want you meant now

DriftSythe2 months ago

I think the upvote to downvote ratio on this post sums up the thoughts of the community

hsetOP2 months ago

it summed up the thoughts of the community before your initial message here was sent, so i see no logic in you saying this now

atp im discussing this only to understand why people dislike it

DriftSythe2 months ago

people dislike it because it's a nonvanilla feature that removes skill expression while not being that useful

4

isawabelle2 months ago

This suggestion is suggesting removing some of the skill from a goal, and your argument against that has been that "its not a minecraft skill and is just rng"
Checking the board is weird and very non-vanilla, and is a very draftouty skill, which people don't really like
Unique foods is different because there isn't a way to check what foods you've eaten in normal minecraft - there is a way to see what items are duplicates in your inventory, by opening your inventory

1

DriftSythe2 months ago

there is 0 rng in what items you put in your inventory btw

DriftSythe2 months ago

like you either pick up or craft every single item

noura 🜛2 months ago

for me it's way easier to keep track of what i do have in my inventory as i fill it up, instead of instafilling it with random items and needing to compare every slot to find the duplicate. the former is more skillful imo

DriftSythe2 months ago

it's a skill to remember that you get 2 stacks of cut sandstone from a dt or if you went for a stack of items you might have overflow duplicate items

hsetOP2 months ago(edited)

if this is the main argument against, then whether to add this or not should not be decided not by up/down-votes of random people in this discord but rather by someone else, because your argument says that it isnt useful enough to surpass skill expression it removes which obviously isnt objective and only decided by intuition and every decision only decided by intuition should be relocated to the group of people who gained trust in their intuition by community

5

DriftSythe2 months ago

I literally have no clue what you are trying to say

hsetOP2 months ago

well, that makes me lose trust in your intuition

DriftSythe2 months ago

whether to add this isn't decided by up/down-votes of random people in this discord

DriftSythe2 months ago

like what are we even saying

DriftSythe2 months ago

it's decided by marin/rowl

DriftSythe2 months ago

but usually if 90% of your playerbase doesn't want a goal you don't want to add it which is why a lot of the time upvotes and downvotes have a correlation to which goals are added/not added

hsetOP2 months ago

i never said "its not a minecraft skill and is just rng", i only said there is rng involved

imagine a world without preview for unique foods. the only reason you are going to forget something is if you got "unlucky" with your "brain rng", EXACTLY the same thing as when you cant find duplicate items in your inventory for 30s

noura 🜛2 months ago

it's not brain rng to use your eyes

isawabelle2 months ago

we can't seriously be using "brain rng" as an argument

hsetOP2 months ago

last time i checked profiles of people who downvoted this most of them were people who either never played competitive or played 1 game and lost, so you cant imply anything objective from that information, so please dont "metagame" in such way

noura 🜛2 months ago

what

isawabelle2 months ago

i play a lot of draftout lobbies, just bc i don't play comp doesn't mean i don't play the game competitively or know anything about how it plays

1

hsetOP2 months ago

you literally are using it as an argument by saying that the reason for eaten foods list to exist is to have a way of keeping track of this list

noura 🜛2 months ago

yes because there's no other way

DriftSythe2 months ago

1. you don't need to have high elo to have opinions about the game
2. im guardian 2 peak elo like what more do you want

3

noura 🜛2 months ago

for unique items you can just press E

isawabelle2 months ago

your inventory
keeps track of a list
of what items are in it
because they're in
your inventory

noura 🜛2 months ago

there's your indicator

1

hsetOP2 months ago

if what i said made no sense to you i meant i dont want to hear any more statements related to downvote count

hsetOP2 months ago

if what i said made no sense to you i meant i dont want to hear any more statements related to downvote count

noura 🜛2 months ago

chill out

noura 🜛2 months ago

other people are allowed to talk about votes

DriftSythe2 months ago

this thread is ragebait

2

hsetOP2 months ago

they do, im just asking not to

Chysery2 months ago

oh sorry then i wont

hsetOP2 months ago

maybe they just ignored my request in which case im sorry for repeating but it seems to me that they just didnt understand what i meant so i made it clearer

hsetOP2 months ago

well im trying to ignore intuition as much as possible in this discussion which is exactly how ragebait appears in regular situations which makes perfect sense why you think it is

hsetOP2 months ago

why is

not a way again????? i genuinely dont understand why you just rule it out

hsetOP2 months ago(edited)

this argument would make sense to me in case forgetting something you ate would lock you out of completing the goal, but you can just eat everything again so can you elaborate?

noura 🜛2 months ago

that sounds like a terrible experience especially for 25 foods

noura 🜛2 months ago

again, vanilla has no way for you to check what 13 foods you ate 30 minutes ago, but you can open your inventory at any moment while you're filling it with items

hsetOP2 months ago

if you're saying that you're just implying that unique items in inv is a less terrible experience and enough of less terrible to not consider it

noura 🜛2 months ago

if you did an andronicus style challenge where the player is switched out every minute, it'd be impossible to make good progress on unique foods

noura 🜛2 months ago

yes actually it's a very easy goal

hsetOP2 months ago

my point of saying this was to point out intuition implication again

hsetOP2 months ago

also you should probably consider (difficulty)/(time is takes) rather than pure difficulty, but dont focus on this message

hsetOP2 months ago

also just my opinion but the goal is probably in the top 5% of most terrible ones to do by this metric

noura 🜛2 months ago

literally how

hsetOP2 months ago

well, this statement is just my opinion

closure2 months ago

"brain RNG" is not actually rng

closure2 months ago

like it can be annoying

closure2 months ago

For example in chess top players say that there's an aspect of luck involved

closure2 months ago

But it's still a skill issue because in theory a person could just be skilled enough to see every line on the board

Lexingtonius2 months ago

because the skill is the point of the game

Pieter2 months ago

I agree with the community consensus on this, but I also just wanna point out that if you have 1 duplicated item you can just grab a 37th item and swap it with everything in your inventory if you're bad at checking for duplicates. There's literally already a way to choose a slower option to mitigate the "brain rng"

3

TNT4442 months ago

Best suggestion in the entire thread

closure2 months ago

i think what hset is saying here is that most people who interacted with this suggestion probably don't have a good enough understanding of the game to understand the points he's made in this message: https://discord.com/channels/1493030345048719483/1530863515659800586/1530919758101483564

Uniquepotatoes2 months ago

isnt it funny how feinberg never messes this goal up

Uniquepotatoes2 months ago

wonder whats up with that...

Uniquepotatoes2 months ago

could it be? it's skill based? surely not...

closure2 months ago

like specifically the idea that this increases decision-making required i didnt see anyone respond to

Uniquepotatoes2 months ago

we dont fuck with this suggestion

Uniquepotatoes2 months ago

simple as

hsetOP2 months ago

well now pieter did and i kinda agree with them

closure2 months ago

it's one of those cases where if you have good inventory management you'll most likely win yeah, if it comes down to "brain rng" then it's a skill issue from both players

closure2 months ago(edited)

this doesn't work if you have 2 or more dupes but i think at that point we can argue you're getting punished for bad inventory management

beniibobs2 months ago

I think it was ragebait once op said “the point isn’t to play better than your opponent, it’s to play better than your opponent”

DriftSythe2 months ago

closure2 months ago

i think they meant "scanning through your inventory for a dupe isn't really a draftout-esque skill (mechanics/decision making) and we shouldn't keep something just because it's vanilla"

closure2 months ago

both of those points were discussed though

Artnauta2 months ago

hset, if you're opening up discord and seeing this again, just save urself the trouble of arguing more and move on, no one wins by continuing this convo

Fill inventory with unique items tooltip