Discord Forum Board

Emily2 months ago

ninbot is banned, there would be no reason to allow it in lobbies

Emily2 months ago

none that i could see at least

TomOP2 months ago

Someone might want to do custom challenges ect and they should have more options not less, This doesn't effect the main game in any way

Emily2 months ago

my logic is, why allow a banned thing in any of draftouts gamemodes

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Emily2 months ago

lobbys by default abide by quickplay/comp rulings, there would need to be some decent code workarounds to strictly allow f3+c in lobby and not risk bugs/exploits getting through to use it in comp too

TomOP2 months ago

Because lobbies don't have to mirror draftout's gameplay and more options is always good for lobbies without affecting the main game

Fynlee2 months ago

it's a draftout lobby, its gonna use draftout rules lol

Ansel2 months ago

ranked is planning to add datapacks into lobbies so why can't ninbot be a category

Fynlee2 months ago

if you want f3c don't play draftout

noura 🜛2 months ago

draftout isn't ranked

Ansel2 months ago(edited)

right draftout isn't ranked but if you want to have fun you can make custom stuff with friends so any changes that draftout makes should be and option to adjust in lobbies

noura 🜛2 months ago

i feel like it's very easy to draw a line at things that are explicitly against the rules

Threadfinn2 months ago

Except backseating

Threadfinn2 months ago

I do think that's needed for lobbies and maybe also quickplay

Threadfinn2 months ago

Like how would you play multiplayer blackout without backseating?

Threadfinn2 months ago

But I agree the game itself shouldn't be modified differently between gamemodes

Emily2 months ago

Thats fair backseating is the one thing thats got a pass for QP/lobby

Emily2 months ago

But ninbot/sheets were specifically removed using them is considered cheating where do we draw the line if they're allowed suddenly

1

noura 🜛2 months ago

it only applies to competitive

noura 🜛2 months ago

rules that don't state otherwise still apply

TomOP2 months ago

Fun haters when you want to have fun in your private lobbies

noura 🜛2 months ago

make your own mod then

noura 🜛2 months ago(edited)

don't use draftout if you don't want to follow draftout's rules

Lexingtonius2 months ago

respectfully, as it says in noura's screenshot, lobby hosts are allowed to dictate lobby rules, meaning ninbrainbot is already allowed... why be so against something in a gamemode within draftout meant for having fun and doing what you like, which would allow you to do that better? why not have options specific to lobbies to make them more customisable to what the people playing in it want to do???

noura 🜛2 months ago

read the screenshot again. slowly

noura 🜛2 months ago

Lobbies follow the standard ruleset

Lexingtonius2 months ago

"but lobby hosts are free to use or enforce any gameplay rules they wish"
??

Lexingtonius2 months ago

am i missing something?

noura 🜛2 months ago

Lobby hosts are free to use or enforce any gameplay rules they wish

noura 🜛2 months ago(edited)

as in, you can make your own gameplay rules where you can't use f3 or smth

noura 🜛2 months ago

not that you're allowed to cheat

noura 🜛2 months ago

it also says nothing about lobby hosts nullifying the standard rules as they wish

Emily2 months ago

The difference is f3+c and ninbot isn't a gameplay rule, its an external tool that the dev team specifically tried to code out of the game. Its like saying "can I inject a hacked client and only use it in lobby games" or asking for peaceful mode toggle back in lobby, it was all coded out for a reason

Lexingtonius2 months ago

yeah that's fair I see your point, but if they were to add options like this it would be them clarifying what is allowed and what isnt; i don't know if policing what people do in private lobbies is really that big of a concern, in terms of their purpose which is to just have fun with the mod how the lobby sees fit.

also, it is not the same as a hacked client, ninbrainbot is possible in base game and a hacked client is not, with ninbrainbot being allowed in most competitive minecraft gamemodes where its relevant

Emily2 months ago

Whether ninbot is allowed elsewhere is irrelevant, its not allowed here, its been coded out of the game for that reason. Finding a way to use ninbot, or using axis sheets is cheating by the rules, you can do sheet less which is Def possible in base game, but nothing in base game lets you spit out exact stronghold coords by pressing f3+c after throwing an eye

Lexingtonius2 months ago

fully a strawman, thats not what im saying, my argument's not that it should be allowed in comp or anything similar, i was just saying how its not the same as a hacked client.

Emily2 months ago

Its the same in the fact they're external tools that are banned

Lexingtonius2 months ago

yes, but there's merits to allowing it in a private lobby setting

Emily2 months ago

You said ninbot is possible in base game, then mentioned it being allowed in most comp gamemodes where its relevent

Emily2 months ago

The merits being? So far the merit I've seen said is that its fun for some players

Rug2 months ago

hacking in ranked private lobbies isnt allowed ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Lexingtonius2 months ago

its suggested to be an option, not the default, so everyone in the lobby would presumably be happy to play with it - whats the actual downside to letting people change this as a setting if they would find it more fun in their private lobby?

noura 🜛2 months ago

biggest downside is that players using ninbot develop the muscle memory for using eyezoom and they'll inevitably use it to cheat in competitive matches, even unintentionally

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Rug2 months ago

well, the F3 + C behavior could still be mangled in comp

noura 🜛2 months ago

wow nerd react you really got me there man

Rug2 months ago

so it wouldnt even work

noura 🜛2 months ago

yes but the eyezoom resize is still banned outside of ninbot uses

Rug2 months ago

true

Rug2 months ago

I see what you mean

noura 🜛2 months ago

if you're not going to act like an adult about this, you're asking for your thread to get scrapped @Tom

mr. pineapple2 months ago

Chill out

Emily2 months ago

Again there is a difference between options, like board size, custom boards, blackout vs lockout etc. Then theres "can we use this banned external tool"

noura 🜛2 months ago

i'm chill, op should actually read what people are saying instead of fucking around

Lexingtonius2 months ago

yeah, its a suggestion for the future for something i would like to see to make the lobbies more customisable and fun. just because the precedent is something now, doesnt make it non subject to change, especially as a beta or early access or whatever drafout is

Emily2 months ago

i totally get that, i just dont see a world the dev team takes time and adds even more to their plate just to code a way for ppl to use it

Lexingtonius2 months ago

completely fair

Threadfinn2 months ago

I do think that like, rebinding as an example, should be fully allowed in lobbies, even though some rebinds aren't allowed in competitive

Threadfinn2 months ago

And I think the rules currntly allow that

Threadfinn2 months ago

Or maybe using extra glitches in lobbies that aren't normally allowed in comp

Threadfinn2 months ago

Lobbies follow the standard ruleset "unless stated otherwise" implying lobby hosts can be more lenient than comp rules if they choose too

Threadfinn2 months ago

Still against this suggestion since it would require the devs to change lobbies specifically for a small minority of players, but as it stands rn I think any glitches even as far as dupe glitches or time travel are allowed in lobbies if they're possible

noura 🜛2 months ago

why would this imply that?? you are looking for something that simply isn't there

noura 🜛2 months ago

lobbies follow every rule unless the rule clearly states that it doesn't apply to lobbies. exactly like the backseating rule i screenshotted, which was the whole point of me sending it

Threadfinn2 months ago

Maybe I shouldn't have said implied. The rules directly say lobby hosts are free to enforce any rule they wish. This means they are also free to not enforce any rules they don't want. The point is it's up to the lobby host.

noura 🜛2 months ago

no. it does not mean that.

noura 🜛2 months ago

^

Threadfinn2 months ago

It also says nothing about lobby hosts adding extra rules.

Threadfinn2 months ago

It leaves it open as to which way it could go

noura 🜛2 months ago

that's what the entire sentence says man. stop being obtuse

Emily2 months ago

i think theres a difference between like, gameplay rules, and using external tools, which was my main point

Threadfinn2 months ago

lobbies follow standard rules "unless stated otherwise". If I state that I want to allow xray in my lobby that's allowed by that sentence. If I want to enforce xray or not, that's up to me as a lobby host

Emily2 months ago

no, you cant cheat/hack even in private lobbies

Threadfinn2 months ago

I think external tools still fall under gameplay rules, but if they require extra modifications to work in game then there's no reason the devs should have to allow it

noura 🜛2 months ago

???

Emily2 months ago

the devs would have to code a way to have f3+c work in lobbies on toggle of the gamerule, while also not working in comp/quickplay, i believe doing so will cause too many potential problems/open a world where workarounds/exploits get found to use it in comp

noura 🜛2 months ago

have you ever read a list of rules before

noura 🜛2 months ago

stated otherwise by the rule itself

noura 🜛2 months ago

not by a random person making their own rules

Threadfinn2 months ago

Yeah they don't usually say "follow the rules, unless the lobby host decides they don't like them"

Threadfinn2 months ago

Which this rule does

noura 🜛2 months ago

good thing they don't say that

noura 🜛2 months ago

why don't you ask chatgpt to explain it man i'm tired of you atp

Threadfinn2 months ago

So are you assuming that "as they see fit" means they can only add but not remove rules?

noura 🜛2 months ago

can't have a single conversation in this server

Threadfinn2 months ago

I don't see how it's stated that way clearly

Threadfinn2 months ago

I guess you could argue that cheating is barely enforced in competitive matches unless it's super obvious, so cheating in a lobby is only slightly less enforced. But I don't think that's productive.

Emily2 months ago

i can attest that cheating is enforced when reported to us

Threadfinn2 months ago

I know it is when reported

Threadfinn2 months ago

But realistically if I rebing my right click to get fast key repeat, there's no way to know I'm not drag clicking even if I were streaming, which I don't

Threadfinn2 months ago

Or xraying with boat crawl, maybe I just pierayed

Threadfinn2 months ago

The only cheating that seems obvious is when it leads to things that aren't possible normally\

Threadfinn2 months ago

Both those examples just make it easier to do what Feinberg does without cheating

Emily2 months ago

that i can agree on, once the team can get the like anti xray through walls stuff workin if they can, it should alleviate that, kinda akin to what ranked has

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Threadfinn2 months ago

Yeah that would be good

Threadfinn2 months ago

Even people that aren't trying to cheat I keep seeing accidentally xray the bastion

Emily2 months ago

sadly for rn its honor code and high risk of being publically shunned if ur an outed cheater/exploiter

Threadfinn2 months ago

yeah

Emily2 months ago

yea we wont punish you if its accidental, even the best accidently do it just going for natural boat crawls

Threadfinn2 months ago

Right and they shouldn't be punished, especially when they were already digging that direction before the xray

Emily2 months ago

agreed

Threadfinn2 months ago

Unless otherwise stated, players should assume that Lobbies follow the standard ruleset, but Lobby hosts are free to use or enforce any gameplay rules they wish

But to me, this doesn't say lobby hosts can ONLY add rules, it seems like they can either add or remove rules as they see fit.

Threadfinn2 months ago

Especially since lobbies don't affect anything

Threadfinn2 months ago

Like in chess, you can use an engine to help against bots if you want, it just can't be used in comp. LObbies are meant for fun or for learning, not for goal records

Emily2 months ago

i def understand that reading, maybe we can get the team to clarify, but rule of thumb is cheating is cheating even if lobby host lets you, u shouldnt xray, hack etc.

Emily2 months ago

mhm, hell ive used an engine to practice before myself in chess, it is a far different game though so its hard to hold them to the same standards

Threadfinn2 months ago

I feel like xray, at least similar to boatcrawl xray, is VERY different from a hacked client. When I play a casual vanilla survival world I often use arrow keys rebound onto my mouse instead of left/right click because it just makes it easier. Stuff like this or boatcrawl is possible in vanilla and in draftout. A hacked client that gives full xray or allows flying isn't possible in vanilla, and also isn't possible in draftout without extra work to get around the anticheat.

Threadfinn2 months ago

And I feel like while they are different, it's more impactful in chess. If I play aginst Magnus Carlsen with an engine on my side I will win any time control 10 minutes+. If I play Feinberg while he's telling me what to do I'm lucky to get 3 goals

Emily2 months ago(edited)

i should clarify im strictly against allowing use of any external tool, my personal oppinion as a watcher/player of the mode rather than a mod is that while boatcrawl and the f5 quake pro exists, i dont see personal issue in lobby hosts saying "go for it" until we patch it out

Threadfinn2 months ago

But that's ok for lobbies, not comp

Emily2 months ago

once somethings patched out tho, i.e ninbot, i think thats the stopping point

Threadfinn2 months ago

Yeah I agree with this

Threadfinn2 months ago

Realistically if Prolav didn't include a section for lobby goal records on the sheet, not only would nobody ever know if you cheat in lobbies but nobody would care at all since they wouldn't mean anything at all

Emily2 months ago

i cant say ur wrong because you do have a point, but i still dont believe that should be a reason to let it happen

Threadfinn2 months ago

I feel like it should be allowed, It just shouldn't be an extra burden on the mods

Threadfinn2 months ago

Like allowing ninbot in lobbies but not comp is a lot of extra work, so it's better to just keep it broken for both

Threadfinn2 months ago(edited)

But since xray isn't patched yet, go for it in lobbies if you want just don't do it in comp where it's specified to be against the rules

Threadfinn2 months ago(edited)

Idk if that's the correct interpretation but that's what I think

Emily2 months ago

maybe, i will say the convo did get away from the main suggestion point of f3+c specifically tho

Emily2 months ago

partly my fault xd

Threadfinn2 months ago

Yeah me too

Threadfinn2 months ago

I think we both agree f3+c should not be fixed and allowed for lobbies

Emily2 months ago

yes, i dont think it should

maya2 months ago

for the record, if it isnt obvious, the wording of the line "Lobby hosts are free to use or enforce any gameplay rules they wish" is very particular for a reason

maya2 months ago

any form of cheating via external tools is not allowed, and by Not allowed, i mean ninbot is in the exact same category as putting yourself in creative and giving yourself goals for shits and giggles
its actionable and if you are caught doing it you will be banned

like other mods have iterated in here, draftout isnt ranked, but if anyone insists on using ranked as a point of comparison, its not like you are allowed to hack in priv rooms either?

since ninbot is something that is strictly against the rules, this suggestion is just inherently voided by that fact, because its against the core ruleset of the game. its normalization in other facets such as speedrunning doesnt change that.

maya2 months ago

because of that im just going to close it and lock it momentarily
reminder to everyone to please be civil in suggestion threads, theres no reason to nerd react someone who disagrees with you or start throwing shit over something this menial. please be nice!

F3+C option on lobbies