Discord Forum Board

LightningOP4 months ago(edited)

we need this

awesomeSallad4 months ago

Who downvoted bro

wookie4 months ago

Dossnt this come under the same as adding f3+f that its judt changing stuff for quality of life that shouldnt be changed

LightningOP4 months ago

i don't think so, minecraft changed f3 to make it customizable but they did so in the worst way possible

LightningOP4 months ago

changing 1 thing makes everything move over, unless you want it to

LightningOP4 months ago

also having more than 1 thing set to always makes it appear over the board, which is just annoying

LightningOP4 months ago

imo f3+f should be added, but i see the argument that its a skill (i just think it negligible), for this theres objectively no skill at all, just qol

awesomeSallad4 months ago

The way things move around the screen is practically random and can reward/punish people for basically nothing so essentially this is just rng standardization

~justin4 months ago(edited)

but it's not rng, it's totally deterministic? very roughly speaking, minecraft splits the possibilities in half, sorted alphabetically and by status as an individual line or group & you can strategically influence which side lines and groups appear by what entries you enable. it's an optimization challenge where a lot of personality can be shown (similar to preferred fov, gui scale, rd, etc), and accepting the argument that '[f3 line position] can reward/punish people,' you can trade more exact control over position for either less information overall or more extraneous information.

1

awesomeSallad4 months ago

Huh interesting. I knew there it some level of deterministic but I didn’t really know how.

awesomeSallad4 months ago

I’m still supporting this because of the line position punishing/rewarding people, it is less of a slam dunk ig

LightningOP4 months ago

i think that's just far too niche for 99% of players

LightningOP4 months ago

like im sure im doing something wrong but I tried for 10 minutes to get chunk data to the left of the screen and I just couldn't figure it out

DriftSythe4 months ago

it's deterministic but really stupid that you can't change at least which side of the screen certain information is on

DriftSythe4 months ago

it's more of a game design failure than an "optimization challenge" imo

DriftSythe4 months ago

I don't think it plays a huge role but like for a lot of people you have to sacrifice information to play with information at your preferred location

Uniquepotatoes4 months ago

it’s not a game design failure really as f3 is not intended to be part of the gameplay, it’s a debugging tool

DriftSythe4 months ago

I think mojang knows that f3 is used for more than just debugging even if it wasn’t their intention originally

DriftSythe4 months ago

otherwise like what’s the point in making the entire thing customizable in the first place and having unique controls for every different f3 action

GracefulBeauty4 months ago

well this is good for debugging

GracefulBeauty4 months ago(edited)

maybe being able to rebind controls is not as relevant, unless you're testing on a device with no F3 key or something

GracefulBeauty4 months ago

they definitely know it's used for more than debugging though

Ellivers4 months ago

I believe one of the main reasons they made the debug menu customizable was so people could see performance stats (FPS) without all the other clutter that affects performance

Uniquepotatoes4 months ago(edited)

I think they mostly want coordinates to be available since it’s also a bedrock feature (you cant see fps on bedrock btw)

LightningOP3 months ago

bump

kuzma3 months ago

Adding to this, idk if it's right thread to say but I think draftout should disable most f3 features including pie chart (idk if it's possible)
And I don't think argument "mcsr runs use pie chart" is valid because mcsr is literally speedrunning so using all available features game have is understandable.
But if you design some game/gamemod, consoles/f3/debug features doesn't really fit.
Average minecraft player uses f3 for coords at most. I think it's fine if you have some "speedruner bias" but imagine any other competitive game like idk csgo introduces some random text and numbers on screen that allow you gain some information. It would be just silly even if it's skill based
Yes, pie-charting and using f3 is skill but it's ugly if part of your game skill is looking at gizmos.
TLDR: allow only coords in f3. sorry for wall of text

LightningOP3 months ago

you'd just be removing a vanilla feature to make the games more random

LightningOP3 months ago

it would become basically impossible to find trial chambers, bastion, fortress, village as well as certain cave biomes etc

kuzma3 months ago(edited)

isn't draftout really about managing random events and choosing between high risk/high reward and low risk/low reward? (not only but partially)
Imagine if we didn't have f3 in vanilla, would playerbase decide to add f3 to draft out then?

kuzma3 months ago

I agree that it's part of problem but probably some of it can be solved with more restricting seed finder

LightningOP3 months ago

theres just a lot of goals involving structures and without f3 its both really random and time consuming, its so random to the point that better decision making wont matter and itd just be really boring to play

kuzma3 months ago

I don't know how trial chambers are generating but very random tasks could just be more rare to appear in pick phase

LightningOP3 months ago

f3 is just needed to make the game fun and playable

LightningOP3 months ago

and the skill expression is higher with f3 then without

kuzma3 months ago

I agree with you partially but i think f3 is just design failure from beginning. And it can be solved if you design tasks around absence of f3

LightningOP3 months ago

you just have to remove all nether goals and all structure based goals, so as i sais itd just be boring

kuzma3 months ago

My entire argument isn't really about is it part of skill to use f3. Just that features like f3 can be included if you have and goal to have popular gamemod outside of niche community. We can imagine something similar in most competitive games but it would be bad.
like imagine Dota 2 had on your screen amount of creeps, players, vfx objects, etc.

kuzma3 months ago

Nether can be solved with better nether seeds. Structure goals could be solved with guarantee that structure is somewhat close to spawn to its task appear in pick phase

LightningOP3 months ago

a lot of games have static maps which minecraft doesnt have, also f3 is just a part of the game so why remove it

kuzma3 months ago

the only problem I see is everything underground

LightningOP3 months ago

even more speedrunner bias, also it still wouldnt work because its either way to heavy to filter or its still impossible to find

LightningOP3 months ago

it just wouldnt work

LightningOP3 months ago

anyway we should be able to customize it

kuzma3 months ago

Resource packs are part of game too but we disallow them.

LightningOP3 months ago

they arent?

kuzma3 months ago

I don't see how nether seed are part of speedrunner bias.
Can't say about second but surely we don't have to have a lot of restriction to seed finder for playable nether

LightningOP3 months ago

resource packs from the game are allowed, but others arent

LightningOP3 months ago

an easy nether is better for speedrunners

kuzma3 months ago

You can totally balance it lol
Like i don't propose having bastion, fortress and all bioms in 4 chunks proximity

kuzma3 months ago(edited)

Okay another examples. Why we don't allow attribute swapping or shift mlg (idk if it is exist in current version I just opened mcsr ruleset and choose random glitch). like there is whole list of minecraft mechanics that can be considered vanilla that we don't allow.
I just think whole "it's vanilla" argument flawed from beginning. The only reason f3 and everything is allowed is because it was introduced very early in minecraft development

kuzma3 months ago

And I'm really not THAT against f3, draftout would work with it but I think any gamemod that uses it as part of design outside of speedrunning doing mistake

kuzma3 months ago

And skill expression still will be present without it

DriftSythe3 months ago

I think like 95% of people would disagree with this

Rudy3 months ago

i dont even get the argument are you comparing f3 to 2 glitches that either mojang patched (shift has been patched since 1.19), or mojang wanted to patch

Rudy3 months ago

Rudy3 months ago(edited)

i think the concept of removing f3 is entirely unrelated to this thread and if you seriously want to suggest it you should make your own suggestion on it though, kinda just highjacking this thread for something most people in this thread would disagree with lol

maskers3 months ago

average minecraft player also doesn't know how to kill the dragon with beds or that you can get "Fishy Business" by rodding a manually killed fish or that you can use a bed to get more blaze spawns or where the gold in housing is

maskers3 months ago

this would probably make sense if it made the game more fun, but it just definitely wouldn't

isawabellelast month

i think f3 tech in draftout is really awesome, i'm glad calculators got banned but the stuff with temperature values and pie chart are all kinda awesome in my opinion (as someone who doesnt rlly know much about the tech)
i think maybe if theres a playerbase for it, having an official no-f3 mode to queue could be cool as well, but thats like a long-term kinda thing

isawabellelast month

sorry i meant to disable ping ik this is 5 days ago

isawabellelast month

DriftSythelast month

~~month and 5 days~~

DriftSythelast month

but yes I don’t think banning a vanilla feature is a great idea it could be fun as an event mode

Threadfinnlast month

Did someone ghost bump this channel?

Threadfinnlast month

I swear I saw it at the top yesterday but you're right the last message was a month ago

DriftSythelast month

yea I remember seeing it somewhat near the top so maybe

isawabellelast month

yea they must have, i saw it kinda near the top so assumed it was a lot more recent

isawabellelast month

ah shit

Make f3 info location customizable