Discord Forum Board

Nindq11 hours ago

was gonna disagree but with those last two sentences, you are completely right as they are other ways to get pearls

Threadfinn11 hours ago

I fully agree, the only real counterargument is that it just makes makes slow and makes end goals nearly impossible if no village, igloo, or warped on spawn

Nindq11 hours ago

true

Threadfinn11 hours ago

But I would love to see igloos and monuments be more useful

Nindq11 hours ago

Makes end goals more bad lol

Threadfinn11 hours ago

Does anyone have the odds of getting 12 pearls from each bastion type with vanilla rates if you get every single backup?
If I'm correct, for treasure and bridge you get at least 12 pearls on average. Housing would be a bit lower, stables is lower but very structure dependent. Reducing pearl rates would actually force people to play bastions differently from 1.16 since backups are more important, or use alternatives to get the pearls.

Uniquepotatoes11 hours ago

In my opinion either all ways of obtaining pearls should be buffed or none of them should

Uniquepotatoes11 hours ago

Boosting pearl rates just cause speedrunners like 1.16 is obviously just biased

beniibobs11 hours ago

On average you’re looking at 10 pearls from the 17 gold blocks in housing not counting the outside blocks or any chests

Uniquepotatoes11 hours ago

I don’t know the exact vanilla numbers off the top of my head

beniibobs11 hours ago

I might have done the math wrong but the wiki says it’s 15.63 gold ingots per item for ender pearls

Uniquepotatoes11 hours ago

But like I said I’m fine with them buffing trade rates for pearls if they also make endermen drop them more often

Uniquepotatoes11 hours ago

Clerics I guess could sell them cheaper but I could understand why some people might not want too many villager strats

Uniquepotatoes11 hours ago(edited)

I just feel like making one way the only valid way to do something by modding vanilla behaviour goes against the point of the mod.

6

pinkpuff8 hours ago

I feel like I agree more to instead boost other pearl acquiring methods just because of the 1 hr time limit being added , or there needs to be some different balancing in place? This just makes it even harder to get to the end in an hour, but I agree with the principle.

Threadfinn6 hours ago

Maybe if clerics sold pearls for 2 emeralds less, then you could start with 10 emeralds plus the 8 gold blocks from monument to buy 12 pearls without wasting so much time getting 34 emeralds. Still would be super slow without monument though.
And if enderman drop rate were 80% then you'd only need 15 on average instead of 24.

Even if other methods are buffed I still think the barter rate should be reduced a little bit. Currently 12 pearls is guaranteed from any bastion except a terrible stables, and it'll usually be at least 18. This guarantee is very non-vanilla and changes the way you play it since you don't even have to consider backup blocks or other options. The current rates would still leave bastion as by far the best method even if enderman drops were guaranteed and clerics gave every trade at all tiers for 1 emerald.

Elag4226 hours ago

if this gets removed then no end goals are being chosen ever

Threadfinn6 hours ago

But I definitely agree with this. With the time limit, if pearls aren't boosted then any end goals are basically just a blank square for all but the top players

Threadfinn6 hours ago

If pearls were boosted to 6 trades in first 15 gold blocks instead of the first 10 I think that's a good balance. That's still double the vanilla barter rate, and it still guarantees at least 12 pearls from every bastion except stables (Which is far better than vanilla). This combined with buffing the other methods would give a healthy balance that better reflects vanilla decision making while still being fast enough to be possible within the time limit.

2

SOOTOP3 hours ago

I feel like boosted pearls goes directly against rowls own announcement

Threadfinn3 hours ago

It does, but it's also just necessary unless end goals get removed completely

SOOTOP3 hours ago

No, the time limit added could just be more than 1 hr

5

Threadfinn3 hours ago

Ok that would also be great

Elag4222 hours ago

cleric villagers and killing enderman are rng dependent on finding village/warped forest/wild endermen, while finding and routing bastion are strategies you have to spend more time learning. removing boosted pearls will make any method of getting them entirely rng and makes end goals (which are already barely done) rng on who gets it and harder to do

Threadfinn2 hours ago

Finding a village isn't rng

IdealTV2 hours ago

there is no argument for boosting pearl trades in correlation with the announcement rowl made the other day. pearls are boosted solely for speeding up the any% split for end goals, which was condemned in the post

op is right as it removes skill expression, not only by opening up other ways to get pearls but also bastion backups, mongey chests for more gold/trades, etc.

2

Elag4222 hours ago

oh yeah mb. well it’s rng whether or not there’s a village nearby at all

Elag4222 hours ago

if there’s no village or warped forest in like 64 chunks then your cooked

IdealTV2 hours ago

get nether gold for more trades

IdealTV2 hours ago

there is always something to do

Elag4222 hours ago

I think it should just be nerfed

Elag4222 hours ago

not entirely removed

IdealTV2 hours ago

you havent provided a good reason to not have it be vanilla, stating there might not be a village or warped is no where near good enough of an argument

Elag4222 hours ago

one time I traded like half a stack of gold blocks and barely got a stack of pearls

IdealTV2 hours ago

ok?

Elag4222 hours ago

in vanilla

owlbot2 hours ago

concept (not elegant at all but it kinda works): instead of boosted pearl trades guarantee a 6+rng eye portal, at least that makes other ways of getting pearls viable

22

Elag4222 hours ago

it just sucks if you have a ton of end goals and there’s really bad pearl getting rng imo

owlbot2 hours ago(edited)

it feels like a bad option but so do boosted pearl trades unless you're a speedrunner
and it's technically about as vanilla as structure seedfinding

IdealTV2 hours ago

i make the counter argument that having boosted pearl trades means that youre losing out on other trades which you would expect from vanilla, maybe you dont even have end goals and need string or obsidian

Elag4222 hours ago

hmm that’s true

Elag4222 hours ago

I think there’s not really a good solution here

IdealTV2 hours ago

solution is make it vanilla

Threadfinn2 hours ago

Then end goals are 30 minutes just for that

IdealTV2 hours ago

making it vanilla is not only good in that it is what the player expects but also aligns with rowls post

Elag4222 hours ago

the possibility of bad rng situations ruins like most solutions

Threadfinn2 hours ago

I agree vanilla is good but I think it requires removing any enter end goals or at least 90 minute timer

Elag4222 hours ago

12-12 with last goal enter end and no pearls in 500 trades and no warped forest or village anywhere

IdealTV2 hours ago

its skill expression to be able to overlap and manage your time and the board while doing end related stuff. thats the whole game

Elag4222 hours ago

yeah if they remove end goals and timer then I think vanilla trades are good

Threadfinn2 hours ago

Yeah but you don't need 2 bastions worth of loot and the only other reason you would need a maxed cleric is enchant bottle

IdealTV2 hours ago

very unrealistic situation, but you could say the same thing with like "die to trident" and you dont get any drops from drowneds, "get bad omen" and theres no outposts, "kill guardian" and theres no monuments

Elag4222 hours ago

hmm true

IdealTV2 hours ago

like most difficult goals have bottlenecks

Elag4222 hours ago

ive been getting trade with villager when theres no village in sight

IdealTV2 hours ago

its skill expression to explore and pie often while overlapping with surface tasks

Elag4222 hours ago

Alr you’ve convinced me

1

ZadikGooba2 hours ago

IMO bastions are the most skillful part of the game rn and making them less rewarding is just wrong. They're so dangerous but have so many useful items they feel perfect rn. And vanilla trades are so bad you essentially kill bastions as a consistent way of getting 12+ pearls. RN I think this game is already too village dependant and for yet another resource to be village favored sounds lame. Theres probably a middle ground somewhere but I think just vanilla trades would make the game less fun & less competitive

Threadfinn2 hours ago

But if the point of the gamemode is to showcase vanilla strats and decision making it makes no sense. In vanilla 26.1 you would never skip mining chalice blocks on bridge, but with these rates it makes sense to only mine 10

Uniquepotatoes2 hours ago

even if killing endermen was a better strat bastions would still be op because they have a ton of gold, string, fire res, obsidian, loot, etc

1

Uniquepotatoes2 hours ago

its not like getting pearls is the only reason to ever go to a bastion in this gamemode

Threadfinn2 hours ago

But also you don't need backups to get enough of those almost ever. To get pearls in vanilla you usually need backups in some bastions

IdealTV1 hour ago

i think this is a less credible point than everything i and others have brought up already but i think its interesting to think about: lets say you speedrun the latest version, those who only play 1.16.1 are being favoured despite it being a completely different version/gamemode.

1

ZadikGooba1 hour ago

Draftout doesnt need to be entirely vanilla i believe, if the game is less fun as a result i think its a bad change even if its vanilla parity. I do think the current rates are potentially too high but i would just hope they could be consistent

IdealTV1 hour ago

i mean it has nothing to do with vanilla parity at this point, its about aligning draftout with the announcement rowl made and prioritising skill expression

IdealTV1 hour ago

i dont think anyone here is arguing for this change for vanilla parity

ZadikGooba1 hour ago

thats essentially whats being said though, but i think that removing bastions are one of the most challenging parts of the game and require a lot of skill to route. so my point is that if pearl trades are brought down too hard then no one will route the bastions for max trading and instead just loot the chests and do whatever immediate goals they need to do. Instead we'll just be trading with a cleric like 1.15 or killing enderman like 1.7.

Boost ALL methods of pearl trading and i'm a believer, however!

owlbot1 hour ago

i'm against boosting all methods of pearl aquisition because at that point it becomes a new skill to memorize draftout specific game mechanics rather than normal minecraft

IdealTV1 hour ago(edited)

it really isnt the driving point of whats being said. just to help you understand my point - rowl made an announcement im sure you have seen mentioning many things for draftouts future which i disagree with, as they are trying to increase the skill ceiling for the game and make the top level fun to watch. one of these changes i disagree with being the 1hr time limit, but i digress. so i as a viewer (less of a player because of draftout's vision) wish to uphold what rowl said and make the game as skillful as possible. this includes having plenty of ways to get pearls, not guaranteeing bastion linearity, ensuring trades are what are expected by the player (you may be looking for string/obi/fire res, not pearls), favouring those who play 26.1 regularly, game knowledge of backups and mongey chests, and all the skill shown through overlapping in the nether

SOOTOP37 minutes ago(edited)

They’re not dangerous as long as yk where brutes spawn, it’s still worth trading as on most bastions you’ll get 12 pearls avg with backups, but also they’re worth it for other loot, so bastions+warped for rest of pearls might be better than village depending on what overlap you need this greatly increases game to game decision making skill instead of just always going to bastion

Remove boosted pearl trades