Do not show average on the Leaderboard page
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roobley40 messagesstarted May 24, 2026, 2:42 PM
roobley40 messagesstarted May 24, 2026, 2:42 PMwebsiteplanned
roobleyOPlast weekWhile it SHOULD be shown on the individual player page, average finish should not be shown on the Leaderboard page because it is not a useful stat in determining how good a player is, and it makes the culture annoying in a way it doesn't have to be.
is basically useless when it comes to determining how good a player is in Draftout. For example, Player A could be very good earlygame, draft earlygame goals whenever they can, but tends to lose when the game goes into the mid/endgame. This player would have a much lower average than Player B who's very good at endgames and will draft endgame goals whenever they can, but who tends to lose to getting outpaced in the earlygame. Both of these players could have an identical winrate and elo but their averages could vary by 5+ minutes.
I think displaying it so prominently will make people think it is important when it is absolutely not.
I do not want Draftout to be like MCSR Ranked where people "draw for average", get mad when you draft lategame goals, or get mad when you forfeit when they're on "PB" pace. I don't want my opponent to try to play stupid mindgames in chat like "think of the average" if the game goes on too long. I think making people care about speed over wins only serves to make the culture worse and make people value certain playstyles over another.
is basically useless when it comes to determining how good a player is in Draftout. For example, Player A could be very good earlygame, draft earlygame goals whenever they can, but tends to lose when the game goes into the mid/endgame. This player would have a much lower average than Player B who's very good at endgames and will draft endgame goals whenever they can, but who tends to lose to getting outpaced in the earlygame. Both of these players could have an identical winrate and elo but their averages could vary by 5+ minutes.
I think displaying it so prominently will make people think it is important when it is absolutely not.
I do not want Draftout to be like MCSR Ranked where people "draw for average", get mad when you draft lategame goals, or get mad when you forfeit when they're on "PB" pace. I don't want my opponent to try to play stupid mindgames in chat like "think of the average" if the game goes on too long. I think making people care about speed over wins only serves to make the culture worse and make people value certain playstyles over another.
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isqqclelast week
mm i understand the concern
isqqclelast week
while avg could be statpadded, elo is still the only 'important' metric. playing for being high on that leaderboard would only decrease your winrate and elo?
isqqclelast week
that said, i could be wrong and am open to alternatives
roobleyOPlast week
while i don't think most people will play for average, especially at the top level, there will be people who play for that in lower elos. mcsr ranked has players who have sub 10 averages in emerald because they just forfeit everything that's not a sub 10.
i guess saying "making people care about speed over wins" is somewhat extreme, i don't think most people will actually consistently lose elo to maintaining an average, but people will still care about it and it will still affect the culture negatively. essentially it will annoy people if they have a slow average and people may praise/put down other players or playstyles based on average.
i guess saying "making people care about speed over wins" is somewhat extreme, i don't think most people will actually consistently lose elo to maintaining an average, but people will still care about it and it will still affect the culture negatively. essentially it will annoy people if they have a slow average and people may praise/put down other players or playstyles based on average.
7rowllast week
i think the point is just in general about the culture rather than it mattering or not
7rowllast week
also yeah some people might throw games on purpose just to show up on that leaderboard
isqqclelast week
yeah ok true
isqqclelast week
the other 3 cant really let you sit afk
7rowllast week
for the same reason i was thinking of having a game cap for winrate leaderboard
isqqclelast week
you would have to draw to statpad them
7rowllast week
not game cap but, having at least 20/30/50 matches to show up on winrate lb
isqqclelast week
its 5 rn
roobleyOPlast week
i think if we're displaying stats that don't really matter then something fun like "favorite goal" would be cool. like whichever goal they get or pick the most
isqqclelast week
yup 100% these are ideas ive had
7rowllast week
it could also change colors like paceman does for quantity
7rowllast week
but idk might be overkill
isqqclelast week
right now the db architecture isn't really feasible for this
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isqqclelast week
but we will have incremental updates so itll just be free to query
isqqclelast week
eventually we can have sections for a goal leaderboard too
Petilast week(edited)
I would rather see finished Personal best time than average (draws/forfeits wouldn´t count)
isqqclelast week(edited)
the issue with pb is that generally while the player isnt ranked at an elo that represents their skill, their games will be easier to win faster
isqqclelast week
so that stat will likely be skewed towards placement games or while theyre climbing
r0hkxlast week
is goal diff only for matches won, or does it include losses?
r0hkxlast week
if its only wins you could include goal diff on losses as the fourth stat, if you want to keep 4 stats on the leaderboard
r0hkxlast week
i do think just deleting average finish from the leaderboard and only having the 3 stats would be good though
isqqclelast week
goal diff is currently sum of match diffs / # of matches
isqqclelast week
finished matches specifically
r0hkxlast week
so negative for losses?
isqqclelast week
yup
r0hkxlast week
that makes sense
r0hkxlast week
splitting it into wins and losses could be interesting
r0hkxlast week
so yeah that could still be the fourth stat on the leaderboard if you really want four and there's nothing better
r0hkxlast week
it would have the issue of low sample sizes for top players right now though
Petilast week
Maybe make it not count while unranked so it will be a bit better but yeah fair enough
r0hkxlast week
winstreak would be good
blanket addictlast week
winstreak sounds fun even if it's also skewed towards placement games/climbing
blanket addictlast week(edited)
I think goal differential in losses is kinda scuffed because people can (and probably will) forfeit, and you could count forfeited games but I think it'd be better to not, it'd probably lead to weird results (what if you die in lava up 6-5 and forfeit? what if you're pretty much locked in to lose by 2 goals but you're currently behind by 5?)